tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post7004169521578689180..comments2024-03-24T11:47:12.059+01:00Comments on Those Who Can See: Arabs and Liberal Democracy: A PrimerM.G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-51755965998355344962013-09-18T23:22:41.037+02:002013-09-18T23:22:41.037+02:00noone--
Thanks for reading.
noone--<br /><br />Thanks for reading.<br />M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-76816212725126127822013-09-17T17:37:50.965+02:002013-09-17T17:37:50.965+02:00excellent stuffexcellent stuffnoonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-5911568838554613352013-09-10T21:46:29.145+02:002013-09-10T21:46:29.145+02:00Ivan M.--
Should you people overcome your unfoldi...Ivan M.--<br /><br /><i>Should you people overcome your unfolding crisis, long-term survival would probably demand some return to smaller, more organic communities</i><br /><br />This really seems key, but I'm a bit more pessimistic than you--I don't see it happening unless driven by a cataclysmic event or a really long, deep civilizational decline beforehand.<br /><br /><i>It's not much of a stretch to imagine individuals who merely looked or sounded too different being weeded out as well.</i><br /><br />This sounds quite plausible for the Japanese, studies I've seen show that conformity levels there are really high even compared to other 'ice peoples.'<br /><br />The <a href="http://people.exeter.ac.uk/ln202/publications/newson%20and%20richerson%20why%20do%20people%20become%20modern.pdf" rel="nofollow">kin influence paper</a> looks interesting, here is a teaser for anyone who is interested:<br /><br /><br /><i>The kin influence hypothesis proposes that <b>economic development disrupts the social mechanism that keeps the culture of pre-modern societies on the track of genetic fitness.</b> In pre-modern societies, virtually all communities and social networks are kin-based; most people acquired most of their beliefs, values and knowledge from their relatives. Individuals have an “inclusive fitness” (Hamilton, 1964) interest in the reproductive success of their sons, daughters, cousins, nephews, and grandchildren. This interest has the effect of supporting norms and values that encourage converting resources into offspring rather than “wasting” time and resources on other life goals. However, if social networks become less dense with kin and social interactions are mostly between people who have no interest in each other’s reproductive success, the social support for fitness-enhancing norms disappears. This does not cause a sudden change in culture or behavior but <b>norms, beliefs and values begin to increasingly diverge from those which would ensure the active pursuit of genetic fitness.</b></i>M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-18724040657882929322013-09-09T06:56:36.362+02:002013-09-09T06:56:36.362+02:00@M.G. Interesting post, especially in light of the...@M.G. Interesting post, especially in light of the Syria conflict. (FTR, I'm against the proposed U.S. intervention; has the potential to be a quagmire on par with the Iraq war.)<br /><br />@hbd* chick:<br /><br />It all depends on the context. You quoted Genesis 17:1-2; reading down to verse 14 reveals details regarding God's covenant with Abraham, the significance of the Circumcision, and the fate of those who don't honor His commands (ESV snippet):<br /><br /><i>9 And God said to Abraham, “As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. <b>Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised.</b> So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”</i><br /><br />Linking this with Genesis 18:19, one can infer that the righteousness and justice God requires of His people doesn't just extend to the Hebrews; see <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2022:21;23:9;%20Leviticus%2019:33,34;%20Deuteronomy%201:16;10:19&version=KJ21" rel="nofollow">here</a> for more supporting Scriptures (note the parallel between Lev 19:34 and Mark 12:28-31 and similar verses in the Gospels re: loving neighbor as oneself).Nelsonhttp://concourseexp.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-52478243045505872372013-09-08T05:43:09.796+02:002013-09-08T05:43:09.796+02:00@luke - "'Be thou whole-hearted [tamim]. ...@luke - <i>"'Be thou whole-hearted [tamim]. And I will make my covenant between me and thee....' (Genesis 17:1-2).<br /><br />"'...do righteousness and justice [zedeq] to the end that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken....'" (Genesis 18:19)."</i><br /><br />was god telling the ancient hebrews to be whole-hearted and righteous and just to <i>everyone</i>, or just to each other? (or even back to god?)hbd chickhttp://hbdchick.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-90302426819770569482013-09-08T00:03:38.278+02:002013-09-08T00:03:38.278+02:00Great post! Here's something to compliment it:...Great post! Here's something to compliment it:<br /><br /><a href="http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/how-inbred-are-europeans/" rel="nofollow">How Inbred are Europeans? | JayMan's Blog</a>JayManhttp://jaymans.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-90938918152343545562013-09-07T01:32:11.738+02:002013-09-07T01:32:11.738+02:00Slightly off topic, but I was struck by this sente...Slightly off topic, but I was struck by this sentence from the US Dept. of State: <br /><br /><i>"The bill's introductory observation is that the continued lack of democracy in some countries is inconsistent with the universal values on which the U.S. is based, and that this situation poses a national security threat to the U.S. and its friends."</i><br /><br />How do explain the ancient Hebrews, a tiny semi-nomadic people living on the fringes of late-Bronze Age Mesopotamian civilization, coming up with the idea of a universal ethic as described in the Patriarchal Narratives in the middle parts of Genesis? Here was a clan of a couple of hundred persons -- and polygamous at that -- the head of which came up with the idea of a "maker of heaven and earth" who judges every human being according to his deeds by a single standard of equity --9<i>tzadik</i> and <i>tamim</i> -- which he proceeds to communicate to the foreign tribes around him! And not only communicate but put into practice the principles of justice and equity upon which every man is to be be judged. Thus after successfully helping defend a neighboring tribe in battle, when offered a reward, Abraham says:<br /><br /><br /><i>"I have lifted up my hand unto the Lord, God Most High, Maker of heaven and earth, that I will not take a thread nor a shoe latchet nor ought that is thine [his ally], lest thou shouldest say, 'I have made Abram rich.'"</i><br /><br />The leader of another tribe addresses Abraham as follows:<br /><br /><i>"God is with thee in all that thou doest. Now therefore swear unto me here by God that thou wilt not deal falsely with me, nor with my son, nor with my son's son: but according to the kindness that I have done unto thee, thou shalt do unto me, and unto the land wherein thou hast sojourned."</i><br /><br /><a title="And so on . . ." href="https://sites.google.com/site/thetorahandthewestbank/" rel="nofollow">And so on . . .</a>Luke Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11290760894780619646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-77295899908149766092013-09-06T11:21:43.223+02:002013-09-06T11:21:43.223+02:00M.G.,
I wonder if it's just NW Euros' fat...M.G.,<br /><br /><i>I wonder if it's just NW Euros' fate to out-breed themselves / race-replace themselves from existence.</i><br /><br />Perhaps we are witnessing the results of <b>additional heavy doses</b> of outbreeding that might have occurred long after the Middle Ages. Industrial urbanization between the late 19th and early 20th century is one possible culprit. Even more recent developments like national highway systems and affordable air travel could've had a genetic impact.<br /><br /><i>You made me think of <a href="http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/kinship_and_fertility/" rel="nofollow">this study</a> about Iceland, which found maximal fertility in couples who are sixth or seventh cousins.</i><br /><br />I'm reminded of <a href="http://people.exeter.ac.uk/ln202/publications/newson%20and%20richerson%20why%20do%20people%20become%20modern.pdf" rel="nofollow">the kin influence hypothesis</a> and its proponents' attempts at explaining fertility decline in modernized societies. However narrow this idea may be (in terms of human biodiversity), it provides a useful hint.<br /><br />Should you people overcome your unfolding crisis, long-term survival would probably demand some return to smaller, more organic communities, encouraging healthier breeding practices. Thwarting that NW Euro inclination toward ever larger polities entails restriction. I think such can be done without imposing draconian controls on human mobility and capital formation.<br /><br /><i>You also made me think of Greying Wanderer, who often comments at HBD Chick, and his idea about a 'sweet spot' of outbreeding--outbreed enough and you get a cooperative, homogeneous society; outbreed too much and you get suicidal altruism / end of your people.</i><br /><br />Similar thoughts have been bouncing around in my head, especially when observing curiosities like the Japanese. Relevant data is scarce, but they appear to be outbred in comparison to other East Asians, which shows in Japan's orderliness and civility.<br /><br />If an outbreeding "sweet spot" cannot account for Japan's great ethnocentrism, then a preceding group difference from NW Euros is our only other guess. To offer a conjecture, maybe extreme phenotypic homogeneity was selected for in East Asian populations? The IQs of these folks cluster heavily around their means, and they are known for their historical tendency to chlorinate gene pools of any troublemakers. It's not much of a stretch to imagine individuals who merely looked or sounded too different being weeded out as well.<br /><br />How surprising would it really be if Danes turn out to vary much more than Han Chinese in height or voice?<br /><br />About the Swedes: Well, there were <a href="http://www.nationell.nu/2013/05/24/300-nationella-i-stockholm-polisen-till-attack/" rel="nofollow">those nationalists</a> responding in kind to the Stockholm rioters. Let's hope they procreate like bunnies.Ivan .Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07700280754381292263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-59100798368636760232013-09-05T23:26:39.368+02:002013-09-05T23:26:39.368+02:00freedom hayak--
From your link:
AFP - Sweden on ...freedom hayak--<br /><br />From your link:<br /><br /><i>AFP - Sweden on Tuesday became the first European Union country to announce it will give asylum to <b>all Syrian refugees who apply.</b><br /><br />... The move came as the United Nations said the number of refugees fleeing the conflict in Syria had passed <b>two million</b>,...</i><br /><br />Each story I hear about Sweden these days is more unbelievable than the last. It is grotesque but riveting to watch a people annihilate themselves in real time. Will there be a huge wake-up at some point, followed by mass deportations, or will the Swedes simply blink out like the last bulb on a string of dying Christmas lights?M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-39520019863931554132013-09-05T23:17:32.972+02:002013-09-05T23:17:32.972+02:00Ivan M.--
I often contemplate whether the English...Ivan M.--<br /><br /><i>I often contemplate whether the English and other Northwest Europeans are now so outbred that population suicide comes naturally to them.</i><br /><br />It's not a popular opinion, and I'm no genetic determinist, but I lean more and more toward this being true. Maybe you've heard the saying, 'It is man's fate to out-smart himself.' I wonder if it's just NW Euros' fate to out-breed themselves / race-replace themselves from existence. <br /><br /><i>"outbreeding depression"</i><br /><br />You made me think of <a href="http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/kinship_and_fertility/" rel="nofollow">this study</a> about Iceland, which found maximal fertility in couples who are sixth or seventh cousins. You also made me think of Greying Wanderer, who often comments at HBD Chick, and his idea about a 'sweet spot' of outbreeding--outbreed enough and you get a cooperative, homogeneous society; outbreed too much and you get suicidal altruism / end of your people. I fear we NW Euros really are headed for the latter.M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-75162542344773931262013-09-05T16:45:47.798+02:002013-09-05T16:45:47.798+02:00This is all fascinating information, but bottom li...This is all fascinating information, but bottom line, I think Sweden has much more of a chance to engender little (or big) "Saharas" across its land - but only because of social engineering and the assumption, which you describe, that eager Syrians and others will eagerly adopt the liberal outlook of the modern Swede.http://freefabulousgirl.com/2013/09/04/death-watch-sweden/freedom hayakhttp://freefabulousgirl.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-14912468735111621462013-09-05T08:10:51.104+02:002013-09-05T08:10:51.104+02:00Very good summary, M.G.
I often contemplate wheth...Very good summary, M.G.<br /><br />I often contemplate whether the English and other Northwest Europeans are now so outbred that population suicide comes naturally to them. This disturbs me, and it's easier to view their communal altruism as having simply been hijacked or misdirected. "Outbreeding depression" could take on a new meaning should the former prove true.<br /><br />Arabs routinely fail at getting large-scale democracy off the ground, but if the reactionary analysis prevails, NW Euros can only make it work for two or three centuries before implosion occurs. Still, the feats managed within that historical eyeblink were remarkable to say the least.Ivan .Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07700280754381292263noreply@blogger.com