tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post5650867357589667498..comments2023-12-29T09:44:01.870+01:00Comments on Those Who Can See: Meritocracy and Its DiscontentsM.G.http://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-42885280117835692652018-11-24T12:45:30.444+01:002018-11-24T12:45:30.444+01:00KEEP IT UP KEEP IT UP anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05752790295251753500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-56874809527056308122015-02-06T13:57:13.378+01:002015-02-06T13:57:13.378+01:00I have replied to this post here:
"A Gener...I have replied to this post here: <br /><br />"A General, Cursory Response to an HBD post"<br /><br />https://lovethepossibility.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/a-general-cursory-response-to-an-hbd-post/Denisehttp://lovethepossibility.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-77919300808689158512013-11-08T12:17:16.687+01:002013-11-08T12:17:16.687+01:00Akkea
Very interesting and very probably true imo...Akkea<br /><br />Very interesting and very probably true imo.anynamenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-67904552449608779102013-10-21T12:20:26.715+02:002013-10-21T12:20:26.715+02:00@MG: Yes, the reaction of the host population is t...@MG: Yes, the reaction of the host population is the key difference. <br /><br />There are reproductively segregated minorities, and even elites, which do not appear to awaken hostile reactions on the part of the host population. <br /><br />Parsi in India are much beloved, despite having an overwhelmingly elite and privileged role in India, and appear to have won this elite status precisely by the virtuous, hard-working culture you describe. But they do *not* elicit a hostile reaction, much as many other elite groups (episcopalians, etc) do not. Parsi are almost universally idealised and praised in their host society, which they identify with.<br /><br />Conversely, Gypsy minorities do elicit a hostile reaction, despite not being "enviable" elites, as do many other ethnic groups which display an anti-social behaviour towards their host populations.<br /><br />Your post ignores the Gypsyish/clannish aspect, which is the reason almost always given for ethnic resentment of clannish, anti-social minorities, and which the minorities themselves always explain away as irrational prejudice, envy, and so on. I suggest this article on the subject:<br /><br />http://akinokure.blogspot.com/2012/04/why-are-parsi-elites-welcomed-while.htmlredzengenoistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-21581806347945773652013-10-20T21:03:53.366+02:002013-10-20T21:03:53.366+02:00M.G.-
The Chinese definitely are at the forefront...M.G.-<br /><br />The Chinese definitely are at the forefront, it isn't really racial what they're doing specifically though, it's more just finding the specific genes for genius. It'll probably be found the markers for it (which are probably very complex, and layered and what-not) are within certain population groups. And in 200 years when we've solved X number of scientific problems, there won't be any liberals who care whether whites were smarter than blacks in general, or probably jealous conspiratorialists angry that Jews really were the top of the 20th century intellectual food chain. We just won't be exactly human (if at all) by then.DavidtheDukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13923439738017172454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-27653564471815906902013-10-20T16:02:43.588+02:002013-10-20T16:02:43.588+02:00redzengenoist--
I agree that there's no compa...redzengenoist--<br /><br />I agree that there's no comparison to make as far as the host population's competence: 20th-century Euros were some of the highest-functioning groups on the planet, East Africans some of the lowest.<br /><br />Where I think the comparison has merit is the <i>reaction of the host population</i>. You must admit that in both Uganda and Europe/U.S., responses to over-achieving outsiders were similar. We saw calls for quotas, segregation laws, eventually (in Uganda and Europe) government-sponsored violence and expulsion. That's what I'm focused on in this post--not 'what did the visitors do for the natives?', but 'how have the natives reacted to the visitors?'M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-51666170667198593112013-10-20T15:51:33.877+02:002013-10-20T15:51:33.877+02:00DavidtheDuke--
The only way I see that [meritocra...DavidtheDuke--<br /><br /><i>The only way I see that [meritocracy] staying that way is with some sort of central, disciplined central power.</i><br /><br />Agreed, but this is also true for affirmative action countries. It has been the secret to Malaysia's relative success. As Sowell said, free speech is so limited there that no Sharpton or Jackson could ever get a megaphone to rile the masses. And of course in the U.S., federal power has been growing steadily as the egalitarian project extends its tentacles. <br /><br /><i>it's hard to see how continued increased human influence can continue without either enhancing human intelligence via eugenics, brain-computer interface, and/or straight up benevolent AI is our only out.</i> <br /><br />I think petri-dish-level eugenics is coming sooner rather than later, but it's likely, as Californian said above, that the Chinese will be the pioneers. That said, it's possible for a small, high-functioning overclass to exist quite happily with an enormous low-functioning underclass, as old South Africa showed.M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-10239045254716115752013-10-20T04:21:49.557+02:002013-10-20T04:21:49.557+02:00Why not just recruit individuals who can do the jo...Why not just recruit individuals who can do the job the right way? If a person can come and live a productive life, has a great skill, contribute to society, and be of good use, why should that person's race or ethnicity matter? If said person won't behave or causes trouble, deal with that person accordingly. Simple as that. I'm an individualist, and persons should be dealt with according to what they do as individuals. icerinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09544321016224628320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-82121054314639617082013-10-19T19:57:29.693+02:002013-10-19T19:57:29.693+02:00@MG: I fear that you you do your otherwise excelle...@MG: I fear that you you do your otherwise excellent blog a disservice by analogizing the role of Jews in the West to the role of Indians in Uganda. The countries of NWE with few Jews do not suffer from the retardation suffered by African countries devoid of Indians - those are the countries of NWE with the strongest metrics of per capita accomplishment and development. There is some merit to the analogy, but it must be qualified.redzengenoistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-28615275365759014042013-10-17T17:40:49.536+02:002013-10-17T17:40:49.536+02:00M.G.
But just like a toll-booth, it gets harder a...M.G.<br /><br /><i>But just like a toll-booth, it gets harder and harder to give up as time goes by...</i><br /><br />I was simply providing understanding behind the thought process behind AA, don't agree with it.<br /><br />It has to end sometime, by disaster or not. I think the bigger question is: can a civilization actually maintain a orderly meritocracy, or do each group inevitably work to undermine it for its own interests? The only way I see that staying that way is with some sort of central, disciplined central power. <br /><br />'Course, that isn't foolproof either as any human government is capable of corruption. At this point with all the foreseeable possible existential future threats to humanity right now like nuclear weapons, overly successful biological warfare, climate change and ecological disruption, cultural and demographic destabilization, peak oil, and amoral/malicious superhuman intelligence it's hard to see how continued increased human influence can continue without either enhancing human intelligence via eugenics, brain-computer interface, and/or straight up benevolent AI is our only out. <br /><br />All other human-level civilizations seem eventually susceptible to varying degrees of Idiocracy.DavidtheDukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13923439738017172454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-20760030354013213262013-10-16T06:15:15.761+02:002013-10-16T06:15:15.761+02:00I am also amazed at the Wikipedia article linked a...I am also amazed at the Wikipedia article linked as source:<br /><br />http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Jewish_influence<br /><br />I am amazed that it was not deleted yet!<br /><br />AmericanGoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00865892490752172185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-40642173234644585862013-10-16T06:14:11.638+02:002013-10-16T06:14:11.638+02:00Stunning post.
I would like to think that I had s...Stunning post.<br /><br />I would like to think that I had some input into its creation with my flippant remark in a previous posting... But then again my ego is already big enough.<br /><br />I will comment on this once I gather all my thoughts into some sort of a sane pattern.<br /><br />Again, best blog, and many of the comments are superb too.AmericanGoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00865892490752172185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-68468367122071518322013-10-16T02:25:46.341+02:002013-10-16T02:25:46.341+02:00DavidtheDuke--
They don't even have to necess...DavidtheDuke--<br /><br /><i>They don't even have to necessarily believe in racial equality of ability, but that blacks etc have unfairly been held down by the haughty whites.</i><br /><br />Perhaps, but even if one believes such a thing, logically the whole project should have a shelf life. AA was originally about 'leveling the playing field,' and all early proponents, black and white, thought it would be over and done with in a decade or two. But just like a toll-booth, it gets harder and harder to give up as time goes by...M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-10879623839575502912013-10-16T02:22:10.946+02:002013-10-16T02:22:10.946+02:00Titus Didius Tacitus--
Which means discrimination...Titus Didius Tacitus--<br /><br /><i>Which means discrimination by race, mostly, but where that is "good",</i><br /><br />Yes, here in France they do call it <i>la discrimination positive.</i> Slightly less euphemistic. <br /><br /> <i>...the more able minority stars in rent-seeking and in culture and politics, it is demographically dynamic and also wants to import a lot of other people who will also benefit from the "affirmative action"</i><br /><br />Yes, one thing you can say for the Chinese in Southeast Asia is that you don't get the sense they are trying to utterly hijack and change their hosts' cultures.<br /><br /><i>The ostensible answer is likely to be: "the idealism of the majority".</i><br /><br />This really may be all it takes. One very-able minority in the U.S. has certainly helped things along, but I think ethnic NW Euros' pathological out-group altruism could have gotten us to the same place all on its own. <br /><br /><i>You might get long-term peace in a low-deception scenario, but in a high-deception "nightmare scenario" long term peace is unlikely.</i><br /><br />Good points all. I feel the high-deception scenario we're currently living in the U.S. cannot last much longer. Too many holes in the dike, as it were.M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-15825886327150106992013-10-16T02:06:57.219+02:002013-10-16T02:06:57.219+02:00Californian--
Be interesting to see what will hap...Californian--<br /><br /><i>Be interesting to see what will happen in a generation or two when China goes up against a self-deceiving Western world.</i><br /><br />I'm fascinated to see what will come of this. They appear to have no taboos whatsoever about genetic science. But when they start fiddling with embryos in the petri dish, will it be just high IQ they select for? That's not the whole story of societal success. The West's famous innovative, 'think-outside-the-box' streak has helped us hugley. Will the Chinese try to select for this type of trait too? If so, watch out.<br /><br />.<i>..unqualified doctors will be out in the real world, again a formula for a less healthy society.</i><br /><br />Did you ever hear about what happened to the black medical student in the famous <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke" rel="nofollow">Bakke case</a>, poster child for successful affirmative action? Lost his license in <a href="http://townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2002/08/07/the_life_and_death_of_patrick_chavis" rel="nofollow">total disgrace.</a> That's too steep a price to pay to make some Afros feel good about themselves.<br /><br /><i>The "disadvantaged academic background" business translates into: It's all YT's fault!</i><br /><br />Yes, until genetic science somehow proves that cognitive ability differs between groups. However, I have a feeling that at that point, progressives will move seamlessly from 'Society has short-changed NAMs, so give them hand-outs' to 'Biology has short-changed NAMs, so give them handouts.' Time will tell.M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-48613464989994469602013-10-16T01:41:16.265+02:002013-10-16T01:41:16.265+02:00Akkea--
Interesting. Have you posted these result...Akkea--<br /><br />Interesting. Have you posted these results on the internet anywhere? A hundred years back many Ivy League schools put unofficial quotas on Jewish enrollment. The president of Brown University in 1920 put it this way: 'The idea that any shrewd boy can by cramming get by on written examinations and must thereby be admitted to college is <b>anti-American</b>.' Sounds oddly similar to what we hear today about Asians...M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06817230141673953233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-87694982534696161822013-10-15T18:00:54.865+02:002013-10-15T18:00:54.865+02:00What about a forced meritocracy despite the whinin...What about a forced meritocracy despite the whinings of the low-scorers, thereby naturally dividing the world by ability, regardless of reace? Would a monarchy be required to keep this in line? <br /><br />Also, if you're wondering why liberals believe in AA, it's because of racial nepotism. They don't even have to necessarily believe in racial equality of ability, but that blacks etc have unfairly been held down by the haughty whites. Whether this happened in varying degrees I don't think is even important: enforce strict meritocracy no matter what.<br /><br />Same goes for a minimum income society after large-scale automation, provide a floor of opportunity for all, while restricting child rearing to those that can clearly contribute to the scientific and cultural advancement for all. <br /><br />The problem remains however doing this can always be misconstrued for "racism!".DavidtheDukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13923439738017172454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-60000654259290877672013-10-15T07:16:56.421+02:002013-10-15T07:16:56.421+02:00You left out the problem of deception. Even though...You left out the problem of deception. Even though you implicitly admitted it's a problem, as it shows up at least by implication under different headings, you didn't include it as one of your main heading items. You should because it's important.<br /><br />Everything about "affirmative action" is touched by deception and spin, starting with the label itself. (Which means discrimination by race, mostly, but where that is "good", meaning against whites or at least not beneficial for whites. As opposed to the evil discrimination, which was for whites. Of course antiwhites framed this terminology.)<br /><br />A less able majority discriminating in its own favor has less ability and need to engage in deception in its "affirmative action" practices. That means there's a better chance that programs will do what they are said to. A simple program, nakedly rationalized by the advantage of a majority, isn't that tricky to oversee. Is it working? If it is, the majority keeps it. If not, the majority is likely to change it till they get the benefit they wanted. The whole of the law does X, and very little of it is about deceiving either the majority, that knows what it wants, or minorities that know very well against whom this is directed. There aren't large parts of the program that are essentially feints designed to make it look as though the real point isn't what it is. Therefore there are no perverse incentives and bad consequences from those nonexistent feints.<br /><br />Discrimination in favor of more able minorities comes in various flavors and levels of danger. In a relatively harmless scenario, the more able minority focuses on some productive industry like farming or mining, is neither demographically dynamic nor in favor of alterations to the demographic balance of the state, and has few perceived grievances and little out-group hostility toward the majority. A group like that can probably get what it wants with straightforward bribery and not too much deception. So negative externalities will be relatively low, and though "social peace" won't be furthered it shouldn't be harmed much.<br /><br />In the nightmare scenario, the more able minority stars in rent-seeking and in culture and politics, it is demographically dynamic and also wants to import a lot of other people who will also benefit from the "affirmative action", and it has strong perceived grievances and out-group hostility toward the majority. A minority like that, with an agenda that no sane majority would agree to if given a well-informed free choice, will engage in immense deception to get what it wants, and will see the negative externalities as acceptable or even retributive justice. And it will have the ability to impose that.<br /><br />Discrimination in favor of a less able minority raises the issue of how this comes about, as the minority can't easily organize to bring this about. The ostensible answer is likely to be: "the idealism of the majority". When there is no more-able minority out to impose its own agenda and looking for "feints" that may even be the case. But where there is a more-able minority in action, programs for the benefit of less-able minorities are likely to wind up as part of their deception strategy. As such, their actual benefits are likely to be less truthfully monitored and there are likely to be negative externalities.<br /><br />The problem of deception in "affirmative action" is such as to call into doubt the promise of "social peace" as a reward. You might get long-term peace in a low-deception scenario, but in a high-deception "nightmare scenario" long term peace is unlikely.Titus Didius Tacitusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-4274817224447559832013-10-15T02:12:28.769+02:002013-10-15T02:12:28.769+02:00The inherent dilemma is that multiracial societies...The inherent dilemma is that multiracial societies must deceive themselves. They have to pretend that race-is-just-a-construct(tm) rather than face up to the reality of racial differences. A system which has to consistently lie to itself is one which is inherently corrupt and will be unable to compete against a power which faces the reality of race. I'm thinking China here, which has been reported to be pursuing a eugenic program, promoting high-IQ children. <br /><br />Be interesting to see what will happen in a generation or two when China goes up against a self-deceiving Western world. <br /><br /><br /><i>Medical school admission policies extend from a strict, race-based system in use by the University of Cape Town (UCT) to a “definite effort to accommodate candidates from a disadvantaged academic background” at Free State University.</i><br /><br />There are two problems here, one obvious and the other perhaps not so obvious:<br /><br />1: This means that substandard applicants will be getting into medical school. Which means they are more likely to drop out, which means that many fewer qualified doctors...and in the long run, a less healthy society. Of course, some of these sub-standard students will be allowed to "pass" to maintain the quota but that means unqualified doctors will be out in the real world, again a formula for a less healthy society.<br /><br />2: The "disadvantaged academic background" business translates into: <i>It's all YT's fault!</i> i.e., were it not for colonialism-apartheid-racism-white-flight, blacks would have gotten an equal education and thus would be maxing out their pre-meds. (We shall ignore here the fact that prior to colonialism, etc., blacks were largely illiterate with no modern medical practices.) The result is that since<i> it's all YT's fault, </i> it will lead to more hostility towards white people, hence more flashmobs, farm-attacks, rioting, drivebys and so forth and so on. <br /><br />Now, the question is: what does an intelligent society do about all this?Californiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-74591419315155102612013-10-15T01:04:47.122+02:002013-10-15T01:04:47.122+02:00Whites have been displaced in the country our ance...Whites have been displaced in the country our ancestors built<br /><br />DISCARD I LIKE that,that is the one thing that really kills me ,all these third world people did not do one thing to build this country but they all want the free ride now that all the work has been done ..and it is hilarious how these people can't fight their own battles in their own countries and fix their own laws but man they all come here and turn my own laws and country against me...whitey sacrificed her white sons and daughters to fight their battles against their despots and shit all over us now....unrealAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-80291774217829207252013-10-14T19:56:02.745+02:002013-10-14T19:56:02.745+02:00I was researching race at Ivy League institutions,...I was researching race at Ivy League institutions, and based on my calculations, when you differentiate between Jewish whites and gentile whites, whites must have even higher scores than Asians to get into these schools. Jewish students, meanwhile, need lower scores than either Asians or whites despite being brighter than either group. I did base this on measured IQ and not actual recorded SAT scores of the Ivy League students.Akkeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01143318258688809363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-25778196210800213912013-10-14T07:29:03.516+02:002013-10-14T07:29:03.516+02:00I don't see any reason to accommodate the Non-...I don't see any reason to accommodate the Non-Whites. Whites have been displaced in the country our ancestors built, and no politician cares at all. No compromise. When the smoke clears, we can rebuild, just like Germany and Japan.Discardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1740067042613887004.post-88948227054800300982013-10-13T18:26:49.062+02:002013-10-13T18:26:49.062+02:00hmmmm so I wonder since the Native American Indian...hmmmm so I wonder since the Native American Indians were here first and rounded up and put on reservations ,what do they think...I am sure they are laughing at how we all seem to think revolves around blacks and whites and every other 3rd world people pouring in here pissing all over their country.Hell we did them a favor separating them from our bizzarro society and letting them keep their identity ....which a lot of the anger is about everyones identity,culture,history...the very thing that makes groups feel like one...I ,a white man,am becoming more despondent because my history ethnicity race culture are being erased here in the good ole USA....I wonder how long whitey is going to sit around and be torn apart....I guess like the Indians were but at least they were put on reservations and have still kept their identity alive...which holds them together.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com